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The adjourned inquest on the body of the child of Justinian Carter, 23, St. Michaels Street, Penzance, was resumed before Mr. G. L. Bodilly on Friday morning 15th November 1901. Mr J V. Thomas appeared for Mrs. Harvey.
The first witness called was Elizabeth Mary Carter, wife of Justinian Carter, and daughter of Elizabeth Harvey, who had been living at 23. St. Michael's Street Penzance. She was married in January last and was confined of a female child on October 13th. Up to Oct. 31st she lived with her mother and she was attended by her mother by her mother and a nurse during her confinement, as well by Mr. John Symons. The nurse attended her for eleven days and witness was able to leave her bed in about a fortnight. From that time, she looked her baby without any assistance from her mother. The relations between her and her husband and her mother were pleasant up to Oct. 31st. The witness and her husband intended to take a house of their own because they needed more room, as did also her mother. There was no unpleasantness whatever. Her mother was much attached to the child and said she was sorry they were going. She also lost her appetite and was restless.
Witness used to get up about 10 o'clock in the morning and her mother was in the habit of bringing her a cup of tea or gruel some time before that. Her mother occasionally took up the child and carried it downstairs. On the morning of the 31st of October her mother did not come into her bedroom before she went downstairs. On that morning she brought her some tea and toast between half past eight and nine o’clock. He asked whether the baby bad been restless in the night as she had heard it crying.
Witness replied that it had and her mother asked if she should hold it for a while, and went and took the baby, which was wrapped in a blanket out of bed. She called to her brother and asked if he had finished his breakfast, but did hear his answer. Her mother said “I will run down to him and hurry him up or he will be late for school”. She further said “I will take the baby down with me, and bring you up another cup of tea”. Her mother then went downstairs. In about five minutes she heard a scream, but did not know whose voice it was. Immediately she heard her mother’s voice, saying “Mary! I’ve killed your baby!" It was said in a loud tone and the witness heard it distinctly in her room. Witness got out of bed and went downstairs; but as to where she met her mother and her brother she could not remember. She did not know whether she saw them together but she saw them and it was when she got downstairs. She did recollect that either said anything to her. She went into the kitchen; why; she could not say. When she got there she found the baby on the table, at the right hand corner of the end nearest the door. Lying on its left side, and covered in blood. She took it up in her arms. The blanket was underneath it, but she could not remember whether she had wrapped the blanket around the child. There was no one in the kitchen at the time. She went out of the kitchen, holding the child, into the passage but could not remember whether she saw anyone there before she got to the bedroom. She put the child still wrapt in the blanket, on the bed and looked at it. She found it was dead. She could see the injuries inflicted on her child-its throat had been cut. She then looked around and saw her mother and brother in the room. How they got there, or when they did, she did not know. She was not sure who spoke first. but the first words she spoke to her mother were "Whatever have you done!” Her mother said “What did I do it for?” She did not recollect anything more that was said until she asked her brother to fetch Mr. C»rter, sen. He said “How can I go and tell him mother has killed your baby?” Witness said you need not say that. You can say the baby is dead and Mary (meaning herself) is bad. Her brother then went for her father-in law. The witness then dressed, but during that time her mother did not say a word Her brother came back first and Mrs. Carter afterwards. Her husband and Mr. Carter, sen., then followed not long after. She was in the bedroom when her brother came back and her mother said " What will they do to me now?" or "What shall I be done by? She could not say which it was. She was talking to her mother but had no idea what she said to her. When Mrs. Carter came the witness went downstairs to her, leaving her mother and brother in the bedroom. Not very long alter her came downstairs but where she went she could not say. She knew that the next time she saw her mother her husband and Mrs. Carter were present. Mrs Carter sent out for some brandy for herself. She remembers her mother dressing to go away with the police. She spoke to her then but only about her clothes. When she went into the kitchen she saw her baby, she saw the blood on the table and also a knife.
Sp. Nicholas: here produced the knife. which the witness identified as the one with which the deed was done, but immediately She had done so she burst into tears. Almost hysterically she identified the cloth, covered with blood, as the one on the table.
Continuing the witness said she had lived with her mother all of her life and at times she had been peculiar in her conduct, and had shown it by not being able to eat or sleep. occasions she wanted company. She would also get nervous over little things. She was attended two years ago by Dr Tonking of Camborne, because she was weak and depressed. She had always been an affectionate mother.
By Mr THOMAS: At one time she was apprenticed to Mr Kendall, draper, Camborne. She had been there eight years. She left because her mother was taken suddenly ill. Her father was not home then. Her mother became very weak and wanted someone to be always beside her, and asked her to stay at home. She was nervous and depressed. A cousin of hers had also left service in order to reside with her mother. This was during the time she was working at Kendall's. She remembered when but a young girl, between seven or eight, someone say that mother had attempted to put her in the oven. She remembered a man coming as he had beard her scream.
On the suggestion of Mr W S Bennett, the Coroner inquired of the witness whether her mother was a right or left handed woman, and witness replied right-handed.
This closed the examination of Mrs. Carter, who bore the trying ordeal remarkably well.
Faith Carter wife of Justinian Carter, serpentine worker, Penzance, mother of the father of the child was the next witness called; but she was too overcome and fainted. She shortly recovered though and still gave her answers in a very weak voice. She said Mrs. Harvey was particularly fond of the child and the witness had seen them all nearly every day. She knew her son and his wife intended to take a house for themselves, not on the account of any unpleasantness, but because they required more room. On 31st October she got a message in the morning by the little boy Harvey and she accordingly dressed and went to 23 St Michaels Street Penzance. When she got there she met her daughter-in-law in the passage, but it was some minutes before she could tell her what had happened. They went into one of the sitting rooms. She did not remember seeing Mr Harvey. She was too much upset until after her husband came. Mrs. Carter said “If I had only asked Mr Carter first,” or “told Tiny before he went to work.” She did not explain what she meant by the words. Witness did not say anything to Mrs. Harvey. She was too much upset. She remembered Sup. Nicholas coming and helped Mrs. Harvey dress to go away. Witness did not see the child at all. She could not. She knew Mrs Harvey a few months before she came to live at Penzance. She had heard her say she had suffered a great deal in her hear at times, and had been obliged to go out and let the water run on her head. She was a very pleasant woman when she was right and well. The idea of her daughter and her husband leaving had had an effect on her. She did not want them to go and seemed low spirited. Witness had heard her say “she Did not know how she would live without Mary," and also that she would feel it very much to part with the child.
Dr Bennett said he had practised in Penzance for 40 years, but up to Oct. 31st, had no knowledge whatsoever of the parties. On Oct. 31st he got a message about half past ten by Mr Carter junior who asked him to go and see his child who had met with an accident. He went at once to 23 St Michaels Street Penzance, but in going there Mr Carter told him the child was dead. On reaching the house he met Mr Branwell in the passage and then both went up and saw the child which was on the bed. He examined the child, which was perfectly dead. The head was nearly severed from the body, and on the right side the vessels were all nearly cut through. The larynx was also severed and the head severed at the point it joined the spine. Great force must have been used; and death must have been immediate. The knife produced could have caused the injuries. The wound was a jagged one, showing that the head had been hacked off, with a sort sawing motion. He afterwards saw Mrs. Harvey in the front sitting room
there were present Mr and Mrs Carter Senior, Dr Branwell and himself. He asked if she had been well lately, and she said she had not been well for weeks, and had not been able to eat or sleep. She had been restless and unable to do any work properly. She went on to say she had heavy gloom upon her and she had had it for some time. All this was said to questions from witness. She also remarked that her daughter going away had worried her a great deal. Mrs Harvey looked at the time particularly dazed, and had lost expression of countenance. Dr Branwell asked her age and she replied “52” It was a medical fact in a woman of nervous temperament, the symptoms became aggravated when they arrive at this age. It sometimes produced symptoms of homicidal mama. It was a well-known medical fact. The paroxysms of homicidal mania came on quiet suddenly, and there might or might not be premonitory symptoms. There might be an outbreak of mania after such an attack, or the person can be perfectly rational. A person might appear sane at half past nine a paroxysms homicidal mania come on. during which they might kill someone, and then at quarter past ten or as soon as the act was accomplished, be perfectly sane again.
Sup Nicholas said was called to the in St Michaels Street Penzance, by Mr. Carter, the younger. In the front room there were Mr. and Mrs. Carter, senior, Mrs. Carter, junior and Mrs Harvey, and Dr Branwell. He first went into the kitchen and found on the corner of the table cloth a quantity of blood. He produced the table cloth and knife, which was close to the patch of blood, on which were blood stains. He went up to the front bedroom and found Drs. Branwell and Bennett examining the child on the bed. He saw the injuries of the child. He then went downstairs and saw Mrs Harvey and told her that she would be taken in to custody on the charge of wilful murder of her daughter’s child that morning. She was about to say something and he said perhaps you had better say nothing; whatever you say will be taken in evidence against you. When everyone had gone from the room and before he took her away, she said “I hope and trust they will not hang me. However did I come to do it? I did not know what I was doing at the time”
The Coroner, summing up, said it was one of the most painful and serious cases of any that had come before the court since he had held the position of coroner. There were two questions of which he had to ask them to exercise their judgement.
How the child met its death and was the crime manslaughter or murder?
With regard to the first question there could be no difficulty arriving at the conclusion that the child met its death at the hands of its grandmother.
With regard to the other question they must not take into consideration the state of the woman’s mind, that would be raised by those who represent her in another court. If they believed she intended to murder the child, no matter, the state of her mind, they must return a verdict of wilful murder. It was not a question for them as to whether she was suffering homicidal mania or was not in possession of all her faculties. They were not trying her for life-that was but a court of investigation.
After a short retirement the jury, through the foreman, Mr Percy T Chirgwin, returned a verdict that the child was murdered by Mrs Harvey
The CORONER: That is a verdict of wilful murder.
Mr. Chirgwin: Can add rider?
The Coroner: Yes.
Mr. Chirgwin: We consider The deed was committed during a temporary attack of insanity.
CORONER: said he should have to commit Mrs. Harvey to take her trial at the assizes for the county on the charge of wilful murder.
The adjourned inquest on the body of the child of Justinian Carter, 23, St. Michaels Street, Penzance, was resumed before Mr. G. L. Bodilly on Friday morning 15th November 1901. Mr J V. Thomas appeared for Mrs. Harvey.
The first witness called was Elizabeth Mary Carter, wife of Justinian Carter, and daughter of Elizabeth Harvey, who had been living at 23. St. Michael's Street Penzance. She was married in January last and was confined of a female child on October 13th. Up to Oct. 31st she lived with her mother and she was attended by her mother by her mother and a nurse during her confinement, as well by Mr. John Symons. The nurse attended her for eleven days and witness was able to leave her bed in about a fortnight. From that time, she looked her baby without any assistance from her mother. The relations between her and her husband and her mother were pleasant up to Oct. 31st. The witness and her husband intended to take a house of their own because they needed more room, as did also her mother. There was no unpleasantness whatever. Her mother was much attached to the child and said she was sorry they were going. She also lost her appetite and was restless.
Witness used to get up about 10 o'clock in the morning and her mother was in the habit of bringing her a cup of tea or gruel some time before that. Her mother occasionally took up the child and carried it downstairs. On the morning of the 31st of October her mother did not come into her bedroom before she went downstairs. On that morning she brought her some tea and toast between half past eight and nine o’clock. He asked whether the baby bad been restless in the night as she had heard it crying.
Witness replied that it had and her mother asked if she should hold it for a while, and went and took the baby, which was wrapped in a blanket out of bed. She called to her brother and asked if he had finished his breakfast, but did hear his answer. Her mother said “I will run down to him and hurry him up or he will be late for school”. She further said “I will take the baby down with me, and bring you up another cup of tea”. Her mother then went downstairs. In about five minutes she heard a scream, but did not know whose voice it was. Immediately she heard her mother’s voice, saying “Mary! I’ve killed your baby!" It was said in a loud tone and the witness heard it distinctly in her room. Witness got out of bed and went downstairs; but as to where she met her mother and her brother she could not remember. She did not know whether she saw them together but she saw them and it was when she got downstairs. She did recollect that either said anything to her. She went into the kitchen; why; she could not say. When she got there she found the baby on the table, at the right hand corner of the end nearest the door. Lying on its left side, and covered in blood. She took it up in her arms. The blanket was underneath it, but she could not remember whether she had wrapped the blanket around the child. There was no one in the kitchen at the time. She went out of the kitchen, holding the child, into the passage but could not remember whether she saw anyone there before she got to the bedroom. She put the child still wrapt in the blanket, on the bed and looked at it. She found it was dead. She could see the injuries inflicted on her child-its throat had been cut. She then looked around and saw her mother and brother in the room. How they got there, or when they did, she did not know. She was not sure who spoke first. but the first words she spoke to her mother were "Whatever have you done!” Her mother said “What did I do it for?” She did not recollect anything more that was said until she asked her brother to fetch Mr. C»rter, sen. He said “How can I go and tell him mother has killed your baby?” Witness said you need not say that. You can say the baby is dead and Mary (meaning herself) is bad. Her brother then went for her father-in law. The witness then dressed, but during that time her mother did not say a word Her brother came back first and Mrs. Carter afterwards. Her husband and Mr. Carter, sen., then followed not long after. She was in the bedroom when her brother came back and her mother said " What will they do to me now?" or "What shall I be done by? She could not say which it was. She was talking to her mother but had no idea what she said to her. When Mrs. Carter came the witness went downstairs to her, leaving her mother and brother in the bedroom. Not very long alter her came downstairs but where she went she could not say. She knew that the next time she saw her mother her husband and Mrs. Carter were present. Mrs Carter sent out for some brandy for herself. She remembers her mother dressing to go away with the police. She spoke to her then but only about her clothes. When she went into the kitchen she saw her baby, she saw the blood on the table and also a knife.
Sp. Nicholas: here produced the knife. which the witness identified as the one with which the deed was done, but immediately She had done so she burst into tears. Almost hysterically she identified the cloth, covered with blood, as the one on the table.
Continuing the witness said she had lived with her mother all of her life and at times she had been peculiar in her conduct, and had shown it by not being able to eat or sleep. occasions she wanted company. She would also get nervous over little things. She was attended two years ago by Dr Tonking of Camborne, because she was weak and depressed. She had always been an affectionate mother.
By Mr THOMAS: At one time she was apprenticed to Mr Kendall, draper, Camborne. She had been there eight years. She left because her mother was taken suddenly ill. Her father was not home then. Her mother became very weak and wanted someone to be always beside her, and asked her to stay at home. She was nervous and depressed. A cousin of hers had also left service in order to reside with her mother. This was during the time she was working at Kendall's. She remembered when but a young girl, between seven or eight, someone say that mother had attempted to put her in the oven. She remembered a man coming as he had beard her scream.
On the suggestion of Mr W S Bennett, the Coroner inquired of the witness whether her mother was a right or left handed woman, and witness replied right-handed.
This closed the examination of Mrs. Carter, who bore the trying ordeal remarkably well.
Faith Carter wife of Justinian Carter, serpentine worker, Penzance, mother of the father of the child was the next witness called; but she was too overcome and fainted. She shortly recovered though and still gave her answers in a very weak voice. She said Mrs. Harvey was particularly fond of the child and the witness had seen them all nearly every day. She knew her son and his wife intended to take a house for themselves, not on the account of any unpleasantness, but because they required more room. On 31st October she got a message in the morning by the little boy Harvey and she accordingly dressed and went to 23 St Michaels Street Penzance. When she got there she met her daughter-in-law in the passage, but it was some minutes before she could tell her what had happened. They went into one of the sitting rooms. She did not remember seeing Mr Harvey. She was too much upset until after her husband came. Mrs. Carter said “If I had only asked Mr Carter first,” or “told Tiny before he went to work.” She did not explain what she meant by the words. Witness did not say anything to Mrs. Harvey. She was too much upset. She remembered Sup. Nicholas coming and helped Mrs. Harvey dress to go away. Witness did not see the child at all. She could not. She knew Mrs Harvey a few months before she came to live at Penzance. She had heard her say she had suffered a great deal in her hear at times, and had been obliged to go out and let the water run on her head. She was a very pleasant woman when she was right and well. The idea of her daughter and her husband leaving had had an effect on her. She did not want them to go and seemed low spirited. Witness had heard her say “she Did not know how she would live without Mary," and also that she would feel it very much to part with the child.
Dr Bennett said he had practised in Penzance for 40 years, but up to Oct. 31st, had no knowledge whatsoever of the parties. On Oct. 31st he got a message about half past ten by Mr Carter junior who asked him to go and see his child who had met with an accident. He went at once to 23 St Michaels Street Penzance, but in going there Mr Carter told him the child was dead. On reaching the house he met Mr Branwell in the passage and then both went up and saw the child which was on the bed. He examined the child, which was perfectly dead. The head was nearly severed from the body, and on the right side the vessels were all nearly cut through. The larynx was also severed and the head severed at the point it joined the spine. Great force must have been used; and death must have been immediate. The knife produced could have caused the injuries. The wound was a jagged one, showing that the head had been hacked off, with a sort sawing motion. He afterwards saw Mrs. Harvey in the front sitting room
there were present Mr and Mrs Carter Senior, Dr Branwell and himself. He asked if she had been well lately, and she said she had not been well for weeks, and had not been able to eat or sleep. She had been restless and unable to do any work properly. She went on to say she had heavy gloom upon her and she had had it for some time. All this was said to questions from witness. She also remarked that her daughter going away had worried her a great deal. Mrs Harvey looked at the time particularly dazed, and had lost expression of countenance. Dr Branwell asked her age and she replied “52” It was a medical fact in a woman of nervous temperament, the symptoms became aggravated when they arrive at this age. It sometimes produced symptoms of homicidal mama. It was a well-known medical fact. The paroxysms of homicidal mania came on quiet suddenly, and there might or might not be premonitory symptoms. There might be an outbreak of mania after such an attack, or the person can be perfectly rational. A person might appear sane at half past nine a paroxysms homicidal mania come on. during which they might kill someone, and then at quarter past ten or as soon as the act was accomplished, be perfectly sane again.
Sup Nicholas said was called to the in St Michaels Street Penzance, by Mr. Carter, the younger. In the front room there were Mr. and Mrs. Carter, senior, Mrs. Carter, junior and Mrs Harvey, and Dr Branwell. He first went into the kitchen and found on the corner of the table cloth a quantity of blood. He produced the table cloth and knife, which was close to the patch of blood, on which were blood stains. He went up to the front bedroom and found Drs. Branwell and Bennett examining the child on the bed. He saw the injuries of the child. He then went downstairs and saw Mrs Harvey and told her that she would be taken in to custody on the charge of wilful murder of her daughter’s child that morning. She was about to say something and he said perhaps you had better say nothing; whatever you say will be taken in evidence against you. When everyone had gone from the room and before he took her away, she said “I hope and trust they will not hang me. However did I come to do it? I did not know what I was doing at the time”
The Coroner, summing up, said it was one of the most painful and serious cases of any that had come before the court since he had held the position of coroner. There were two questions of which he had to ask them to exercise their judgement.
How the child met its death and was the crime manslaughter or murder?
With regard to the first question there could be no difficulty arriving at the conclusion that the child met its death at the hands of its grandmother.
With regard to the other question they must not take into consideration the state of the woman’s mind, that would be raised by those who represent her in another court. If they believed she intended to murder the child, no matter, the state of her mind, they must return a verdict of wilful murder. It was not a question for them as to whether she was suffering homicidal mania or was not in possession of all her faculties. They were not trying her for life-that was but a court of investigation.
After a short retirement the jury, through the foreman, Mr Percy T Chirgwin, returned a verdict that the child was murdered by Mrs Harvey
The CORONER: That is a verdict of wilful murder.
Mr. Chirgwin: Can add rider?
The Coroner: Yes.
Mr. Chirgwin: We consider The deed was committed during a temporary attack of insanity.
CORONER: said he should have to commit Mrs. Harvey to take her trial at the assizes for the county on the charge of wilful murder.
