Lots of planes

[treeve]

I will get back to your other points, but I will say that it is just as dangerous to assume that impurities and chemicals like barium found after rainfall is as a direct effect of these aerosols, as it is for the premise that the reason for a 'momentary' global drop in temperature to be the direct result of a volcano eruption. The temperature measurement has no basis - the planet has been here for millions of years, evolving. Yet all of sudden technology comes along and measurements can be taken, so the whole world's history in atmospheric content is assumed, on the basis of what?
I know many results may be formulated from geological and especially on a plate tectonic level, as well as ice cores, but even that does not have a datestamp or bar code on it. A certain amount of work can be taken from bone samples over a period from excavations, but it is so sparse as to be unimaginably minute in terms of an overall picture. So I feel that a more conclusive and wider test should be made in order to identify any connection. Many of those chemicals are in the atmosphere from discharges that have been occurring in the age of man and his flues. Some naturally so.

I should add that much of the impurity in rainfall has been drawn up into the cloud formation from land and sea.

 

[ibrowze]

Now you see 'em now you don't.......planes

Anyhow just to refresh the topic in question, just wondering how these lingering trails appear now and then and not on a daily basis. Even during today for instance there were a number this morning, then some more this afternoon and now, 5.30 pm the sky seems to be half hidden ( no personal inference intended ) behind a sheen of semi opaque milky white vapour. It's definitely time for me to create a parody of 'Red Sails In The Sunset' called, and no prizes for guessing, 'Chemtrails In The Sunset'...ohhhh yes.....sorry to interrupt the flow there.

 

[treeve]

One point that comes to mind is that whatever is being done it will affect everyone, and that includes business and politician, oil industry and munitions, agricultural, marine, you name it, it is subject to whatever is being done. The minute you see any group donning hazmat suits or full breathing masks, that is an immediate pointer that someone knows more than they should. No matter what, it is presumed in view of this panglobal effect that 'the powers that be' are in agreement that it is safe, for aircraft are spanning the globe in air space that is contiguous; any claim by the Chinese against the US would be embarrassing. If it means no direct sun's rays on humans, that actually will be a plus, a complete reduction in skin cancer, however it may lull many into a false security 'it's hazy so I won't bother with the sunscreen lotion', also what about the balance of limitation of Vitamin D, humans need Vitamin D.....
The second point is that I rather suspect, since it is an inexact science, that a great deal of experimentation is necessary to find the mix that will provide the best reflective property. Time scales and temperature readings will have to be taken. It will all have to be graphed out and a multitude of think tanks applied.
Any direct informing publicity may not be forthcoming because of the experimental nature of the project ... after all, it may fail miserably, and then where would we be in the Global Warming stakes?

 

[treeve]

Atmospheric Images are given from geostationary Meteorological satellite coverage, hourly, which can be selected from the clock settings.
Visible
Met Office: Europe: Visible satellite imagery
Infra Red
Met Office: Europe: Infrared satellite imagery
Earth Globe
Met Office: Europe/Africa: Infrared satellite disc

 

[46traveller]

Hi Treeve, yes it wasn't so much the materials contained in the samples, but the unusually high count, which was way above any guidelines issued by the water authorities as a safe level for human consumption. If these metals and contaminates steadily arrive through our tap water (And I believe most of us at one time or another have thought our tea tasted different and maybe run the tap to try and improve it, especially in the summer months when the Cornish water supply is under severe pressure from the number of visitors) we would think it was just a repair to the ancient mains system (Brown Water Run Until Clear job). It doesn't take much to imagine that the present screening of waste water for re-consumption by way of filters and ultraviolet lights would not be enough to filter out some of the chemicals and heavy metal present in the waste. If the screening process allowed Easterogen to contaminate some water supplies in the 60's (said to be because of the rise in women taking the birth control pills, and their urine being the carrier back into the system) then there is little hope of ANY Water company covering their backsides by installing up to date screening modules which would protect the public from these new threats. The main reasoning behind this is "There is no threat" well none that anyone in Gov UK will admit to.
I'm still searching for answers, but hoping that some of the HAARP material may clear a few points up.

 

[treeve]

Any concerns anyone has about domestic water can be cleared up reasonably quickly. Take a sample, in a bottle, or jar (which MUST be clean to start with), and request an analysis. There are so many works in improvements undertaken by subcontractors and (take it from me, I have overseen works to water supplies) are not conducted correctly and many are not properly checked on completion; it has to be said that South West Water are extremely aware and conscious of their responsibilties and are very helpful. I can remember a time when water ran milky white with all kinds of strange contents. After kicking up a fuss, it turned out to be a faulty valve on the purification, and a high density of the most awful concoction headed our way. I had a full analysis of their supply; there are standards to which they have to adhere. They will now respond to any worries. There were two not very long ago, where it was brown discolouration, and it settled in lumps, we were told it is only earth after pipes had been changed. However the shower was damaged and had to be replaced and it affected taps. The last time it happened I insisted that it had to be dealt with, as I informed them that a) I am on a water meter and b) I was not prepared to have any equipment damaged. They took a reading at start and finish as I left the tap running full pelt for pretty well all day to clear it. Allowance was made.
From memory the Oestrogen 'panic' was not something to take seriously. Also I hope everyone realises that any government department relies on a team of 'experts' that are under contract or under employment. Many of them do eveything that they can to prevent any backslash to themselves, but there may be some political expediency to keep it under wraps. The guy at the top of a department very rarely knows the subject; he/she is a manager, a paper pusher, a social function voice.

The fact of the matter is that anyone can sample rainfall and have it analysed, so by definition, anyone trying to cover up any possibility of something nasty in the pipework would fail, as the same rainfall eventually gets into the reservoir, through nature's filters and pollutants.

 

[treeve]

Oestrogen

Here is a word from Leslie Kenton.
Every woman should read her book Passage to Power.
There are so many myths on Oestrogen, but the side effects are rarely brought to the fore.
I had a wife for forty years so I know what it actually does. In view of later problems, I was thankful that she gave them up, as it would have exacerbated her problems, and probably have finished her off earlier.
The oestrogen issue in water supplies was brought about by the London Basin's particular problem in that it has to be re-circulated from waste water, that (as far as I am aware) is only a London problem; however there is a wider problem

Leslie Kenton ...
'Called xenoestrogens, these include the petrochemical-derivatives we take in as herbicides and pesticides which have been sprayed on our foods, the plastic cups we drink our tea out of from which can migrate into our bodies and even the oestrogens that come through in drinking water recycled from our rivers. Oestrogens from The Pill and HRT are excreted from a woman’s body in her urine which end up in water are not removed by standard water purification treatments.
Every woman needs to be aware of the potential dangers of the `sea of oestrogens’ in which we are now living. Recently Greenpeace issued a report describing the effect that xenoestrogens are having on men’s sperm count. It has dropped by 40% in the past fifty years. But far more devastating - and much less publicized - are the effects that the rising sea of oestrogens and its consequence of oestrogen dominance are exerting in women’s lives.'

 

[46traveller]

Another point to make about news reporting is the Oestrogen panic was covered in the newspapers and several TV programs, as was the foul up when the Aluminium oxide was dropped in the wrong tank contaminating parts of the counties water. We have seen no coverage AT ALL of the trails in any form, ok one picture in the Mail which was titled "Strange Cloud Formation". It's not being conducted in secret, anyone who looks up can notice, why no reportage?? Then you look at the owners of most if not all of the news networks to discover that three or four major corporations own the whole thing. If they decide that it's not in THEIR interest to report it, it stays on the sidelines eg the waste bin. Where are the old fashioned "go get 'em" reporters that uncovered Watergate etc, the news readers now are just that readers, not reporters. They just read from a cue card something that they've been told to read. If they disagree with what they have to say, they're fired, readers are plentiful, reporters are no longer the news bringers, everything spoken on the news about this sort of thing is from sources usually government related.
Anyway back to Haarp and what their trying to do with Tesslers ideas.

 

[treeve]

You have hit on the very reason I do not watch TV news at all. Garbage for the masses. Classic pointer was when the collapse of Building 7 was on TV 20 minutes before it happened. How can anyone believe any news at all? Key reason why no announcements is as I say, this is a test routine and until it can be said to work, nothing will be said, I doubt.
.......
'Some of you may have noticed (condescending) strange skies lately, and patterns of jets high above. Well we can now report that a project is in hand to save mankind from the toaster that the oil age has given us. You have not cut down on using cars and jets or turned down your central heating, so the Governments are having to do this before it is too late.'
::6:

 

[treeve]

Ah yes, Nikolas Tesla, of him I know, but not of High-frequency Active Auroral Research Program. The idea is not that far removed from weirding.

 

[treeve]

Chaff

MILITARY CHAFF
Hair-thin fibres released by military jets to evade radar during aerial war.
Routinely released by fighter jets during war games at the Barry M. Goldwater Range, 65 miles southeast of Phoenix, the chaff consists of hair-thin strands of aluminum-coated fibreglass.

Chaff drifts to the Earth’s surface over and downwind of areas of dispersal. Concern over the environmental and human-health effects of chaff caused Nevada Sen. Harry Reid to ask the Government Accounting Office to assess its impact. Its report, delivered in 1998, has now been followed by a report from a select panel of independent scientists organized by the Naval Research Laboratory during 1999. Like the GAO, the Select Panel concludes that the health and environmental effects of chaff are minimal to non-existent.

The report of the Navy’s Select Panel is of special significance. These eight scientists and doctors found no evidence for environmental effects of chaff, even considering several worst-case scenarios of its release to the environment. Recognizing that the chemical composition of chaff is very similar to that of desert dust, the panel found that natural emissions of desert dust dwarf the presence of chaff particles in the atmosphere.

Chaff particles are very large — much larger than the 10-micron particles that can be inhaled and cause health effects. Even if all chaff used by the military were fragmented to particles of 2.5-micron diameter, the average concentration of chaff in the air over Nevada would always be less than 0.05 micrograms in a cubic meter. Current U.S air quality standards allow 15 micrograms of 2.5-micron particles per cubic meter, and the concentrations in the rural West are frequently above 2 ug/m3.

The Select Panel found no potential for health problems in either humans or animals due to inhaled or ingested chaff particles.

Similar to dust particles in desert dust? Fibreglass coated in aluminium? Having been involved with the specification and use of fibreglass and research many years ago, I know the tearing effects of fibreglass particles can have in the lungs. I also know that if a particle gets into the skin it can follow the normal path of blood circulation. Tests seem to be applied in basic eating and inhalation, The type of fibre had to be changed as far as building work is concerned – however, I still insisted that site operatives used gloves and face masks. As I keep banging on, military intelligence? The two words do not go together.

However, for the material to cause damage to the lungs the particles would have to be very similar to the needle like threads of fibreglass, with their jagged ends; it would have to be assumed that for the tests to have produced the reports as they are (as much as I have reservations about any military release document) handled by their own military staff, and the results in the public domain if shown would be catastrophic in litigious terms for the US government, as each particle would have its own signature in that they ARE fibreglass coated in aluminium, as opposed to real dust particles.

https://www.denix.osd.mil/denix/Public/Library/Rfchaff/...
http://www.fas.org/man/gao/nsiad-98-219.htm

This HAS been going on for thirty years.

 

[treeve]

A rather good page to give an idea of the 'fluid' nature of the troposphere.
With enveloping currents in the various cells of air constantly moving and their edges moving, it generates 'tubes' of a 'stick of rock' known as jetstreams, useful to air flight paths.
Jet stream - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[treeve]

An interesting thought, I wonder just what effect their plan will have on communications world wide. With the ionosphere used ultimately for bounce. I used to be a Short Wave DXer, so D and F layer bounce was handy at times, occasionally receiving Radio New Zealand, not so easy as it is now, getting such stations piped over the internet, at one time it was tracked down by careful design of dipole aerials, radio filters, single sideband filters, I tried a yagi array, but after experiments ended up with long dipoles, clipped to match frequencies. In the end, I DXed every country in the UN list and many others. I may take it up again, the future of SW is only threatened by Power Line internet, but that depends on proximity and home shielding. SW is still and will be for some years a convenient and economical communication for the Third World. The aerosol generated layer at Stratosphere will reflect a portion of sunlight, particularly UV, which affects radio waves. With the eco-layer in place, it will prevent tropospheric waves passing to a degree, but the ionosphere will be greatly activated by the reflected UV.
Interesting, I still have my Grundig Satellit 2000, needs the drum contacts servicing, I know, but I also have a good supply of single core copper wire to build an new double dipole. Used to do MW DX as well, all hail Manx Radio. I still have the home made lightning trap. It is based around a car sparking plug. Hmmm?

 

[treeve]

Thinking about the intangible 'they', I wondered what is available
I have been looking for some more 'official' websites
It certainly appears not to be a great secret.

Stratospheric Aerosols Complete Internet Resource
SPARC Stratospheric Aerosol Assessment
The Junge Layer
Can We Offset Global Warming By Geoengineering The Climate With Aerosols?
BIRA-IASB Aerosol Database Website
PROMOTE: Stratospheric Aerosol and Gas (H2O, CH4) service

David Adams Guardian 4th Nov 2009.
Stratospheric aerosols
Mimics the cooling effects of a volcanic eruption by spraying shiny sulphur compounds into the high atmosphere. Relatively cheap and easy to do, though it would require non-stop effort as the chemicals gradually fall back to Earth. Possible side effects include changes to global water cycle and rainfall. Would not stop CO2 build up and subsequent effects including ocean acidification.

The premise of the idea
Stratospheric sulfur aerosols - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[46traveller]

Well, after reading quite a few articles and reports about the HAARP facility, I am none the wiser about it's TRUE purpose. Lots of theories none of which are good, and as nobody from the US Gov are going to enlighten us anytime soon with it's role and purpose, very little hope of finding the truth without an accident of some kind or a whistle blower. Not being a scientist with a pile of letters behind my name and a good understanding of EXACTLY what it's capable of, without hazarding a guess, I've gone back to more reports about the chemtrails to try and link them up in some way with the latest pulses emitting from the HAARP facility. Again lots of theories, some plausible, others laughable (for now). Past experience has taught me not to laugh too hard at the "Silly" theories. Weather control using aerial cloud seeding was maybe the original idea for the trails, but why the added chemicals, some of which fall to earth resembling spiders webs which disintigrate on touch. One report from a town near a USAF base states that the pilots of the aircraft responsible are calling themselves "Sky Spiders" as they form webs in the sky. Another report I've stumbled on states that China doesn't have trails as such in their air space, but some weird cloud formations have been seen before minor eathquakes and heavy rain. It would appear that the trails are being blamed for quite a few strange happenings globally including one site which blamed them for hurricane Katrina, and for redirecting a hurricane seen on radar off the coast of New York on 911, that hurricane evidently did a 90 degree turn on that day, something even the experts cannot explain as it (according to them) is an impossible action while over water.
The plot thickens, and the true answer won't be known until release under the freedom of information act sometime too far away for it to be of any help now.

 

[treeve]

The difficulty is in observing a genuine lunatic plan, and the possibility of some other clandestine operation being carried out under the cover of the official one. Since airspace is critical, and controls are necessary otherwise ... air 'accidents' ... I am doubtful of anything like that, except in military zones. If anything was to be distributed, I have no doubt it would be of military consequence, and since anything that is sprayed by nature of being heavier than air, eventually finds landfall, in which case it will be able to be analysed and traced. What is more unless in a military test for safe suits, or effect measurement [just stand there while we explode a 500megaton H bomb and we will see what happens to you] whatever is dropped will affect military and bureacratic personnel, as well as the general population. Whilst I have a healthy mistrust for the military, a great deal is vested in memories of The Cold War, the evils of McCarthyism and parallel science fiction of the time. Childhood memories of The Bogie Man persist.
As far as 'strange' clouds and odd effects in the weather are concened, the Japanese have been studying that phenomena for years, in the hope of some 'technological' breakthrough in understanding vulcanology better than present, the basic premise is to gain some warning. In those times, it is important to remember that humans are mere specks of bacteria compared to the massive forces that make up the thin crust on which we walk and live, the atmosphere is a tenuous and necessary part of that. It, like the land mass, does exactly what science dictates. There is too much expectancy of natures rules, the permutations are nigh endless. It is vastly different from the science that dictates man's little machines and his constructions.
As far as I am concerned (I will look into it) HAARP is rather like the aura that surrounds the Montauk project, it has become so diluted by myth, official reality, and the battle between the unknown and the fertility of the public paranoia and fear of governments, that it is near impossible to arrive at any sound conclusion.

 

[treeve]

It looks to me as if world perception would be better spent in reading comic book science fiction Death Ray and the like. To create land events like those claimed, would require two things, the knowledge of the 'resonant frequency' and physical contact with that mass. Sympathetic Resonance is certainly a part of music, but that is airborne, through the sound board and the amplifying nature of the receptacle. If it were to be translated into Radio Waves, the same principle applies, a receiver is necessary. Waves react and act in the same manner, sound, light, radio, heat .... There is no receptacle, unless millions of workers have been digging for lost treasure in the mountains. Radio Waves .. transmitted, as powerful energy have been monitored, particularly from the Chernobyl Woodpecker, by myself. To create a vast natural' event would require a knowledge of fault lines, and to implant and exact energy to that locale. Since the effect could be global catastrophe, ie the plates suddenly breaking beyond friction and the release of the mantle, crustal material could topple into the mantle. This is Irwin Allen with a Migraine stuff.
Any project that envisages possibilities like that are on a self destruction railway. Comic book Mad Ruler of the Universe, laughing from his seat of Mars.

According to HAARP's management, the project strives for openness and all activities are logged and publicly available. Scientists without security clearances, even foreign nationals, are routinely allowed on site. The HAARP facility regularly (once a year on most years according to the HAARP home page) hosts open houses, during which time any civilian may tour the entire facility. In addition, scientific results obtained with HAARP are routinely published in major research journals (such as Geophysical Research Letters, or Journal of Geophysical Research), written both by university scientists (American and foreign) or by US Department of Defense research lab scientists. Each summer, the HAARP holds a summer-school for visiting students, including foreign nationals, giving them an opportunity to do research with one of the world's foremost research instruments.

 

[ibrowze]

European Parliament questions

We can all speculate until the cows come home however that doesn't mean that we should stop asking pertinent questions. It seems that many people's prime form of exercise is jumping to conclusions, shooting first and asking questions later has lost many valuable messengers. Here's a marvellous interrogative link:
http://info-wars.org/2010/04/07/eur...on-trails-which-no-longer-only-contain-water/

 

[treeve]

China does not have trails as such ....
There is a dearth of knowledge coming from US and UK governements on most subjects.
Just why would anyone expect anything to be forthcoming from China?
Besides, they may have other options, or agendas.

The biggest contribution to the world's future has been made by China in their birth control programme. Every less person born means less exhalation of carbon dioxide, less carbon dioxide emissions from machinery that is either used dirctly by them or less to be generated by the country on behalf of that person. Whilst there are many considerations of the One Child Policy as far as other isssues are concerned, the effect on World Resources and on World Cimate under the Global Warming Theory cannot be ignored.

 

[treeve]

Another consideration is the Ozone Layer in which widespread panic was spread and some connection was drawn between the hole and chloroflourocarbons. I have read a learned paper that declares the the Ozone layer, in order to function, has had and will continue to have 'holes' which breathe. However I now come across a paper by another learned group, who insist that aluminium oxide is the stuff to use to 'repair' it. Complete with an assessment of the effects of an applied aerosol. Date? 1996.
I have a distinct problem with spraying an unnatural substance in the air we breathe. I have an ever bigger problem if it is a non inert material and even more if it has toxic properties. Top all that with global speculation and the growth of a high glowing spread and the distinct lack of official notice (except the links that I found in my previous comment). However, I am even more concerned at the lunatic tampering with a natural environment on which we depend for our existence. If they get it wrong, the consequences for the planetary population could be dire, with the collapse of the well oiled machine that structures our living breathing envelope called atmosphere. The loss or major disturbance of the various component parts could mean we fry. We are lucky on this third rock, not too hot like Mercury, not too cold like Neptune, an atmosphere that is friendly unlike that on Venus. We have something solid under our feet (unlike Jupiter). The atmosphere protects us from wanderers of the Cosmos (take a look at the Moon and compare). Since this project has extended to Britain, all I can say is watch out for acid rain.